Preventing the next generations of Anna Lus


  • Empress of War

    For Asian American girls, I notice, they tend to be polar opposites and never in between. There are the girls, like myself, who only like Asian guys and there are the girls who only like white guys. It seems to be extremely rare to find AA women who are open to dating all races. For the women who are only into Asian men, it makes sense because most women are only into their own race. For the women who are only into white men, it doesn’t make so much sense. So I wanted to figure out why would anyone prioritize another race over their own, whether it’s from a lack of self-esteem or something else and how we can prevent future generations of Asian Americans of falling into white worship.

    I wanted to know what caused my mindset and dating preferences (and those of other Asian girls who prefer Asian guys) to be different from those who prefer white guys. Was it the way I was raised? Was it the environment I grew up in? Was it because of my attachment to my family? To answer those questions, I actually turned to my parents.

    My mom commented that I grew up watching hundreds and hundreds of Asian movies/shows and listened to Asian music constantly since I was 5 (which meant I was bombarded by images of attractive Asian men). She reminded me that throughout my teenage years, I plastered images of good looking Asian male actors/singers all over my bedroom walls, school binders and even my lockers (lol). So that might have something to do with it.

    Then she went on to say, “More importantly, though, your dad’s a big influence on you.” This is accurate. My father is the most influential figure in my life. I would need to write a novel if I had to explain why and how but in short, he took the most care of me and he’s done admirable things in the past to won my (and a lot of people’s) respect.

    However, I would imagine most Asian fathers to care a lot for their daughters, yet many still seem to be fine with throwing Asian men, including their fathers, under the bus.

    So I asked my dad. He then half jokingly said, “You like Asian men because the men in your family are so gosh darn handsome!” While it may seem like he was joking, he was half telling the truth. I will admit that many of my uncles/cousins are attractive and have hoards of women (even non-Asian women) interested in them. My dad, himself, was told by both Chinese women and men that he looked like a cross between Chow Yun Fat and Godfrey Gao. In fact, my family is very odd–we have more AMWF in the family than we have WMAF. 3 AMWFs and 0 WMAF. We actually have a lot of female relatives, but they’re all with Asian men. Both of my female cousins who recently got married (both my age, in their early to mid twenties) married Asian guys, despite having been raised in the west like myself.

    While that may have something to do with my preference, I remembered that 40% of AA women are with white men. With a number that high, at least SOME of those women have good-looking male relatives.

    I read around on the internet and came across a poster on r/hapas who commented, “Asian girls who prefer Asian guys can still speak their family’s language. White-washed girls who chase white guys can only speak English.” I wasn’t too sure if this was accurate. Yes, I can speak my father’s language very fluently but I know quite a number of Asian women (including some of my coworkers) who can’t speak a lick of their ancestral language but still only dated/married Asian men. Maybe he meant Asian girls who can speak their family’s language are MORE LIKELY to prefer Asian guys?

    In any case, personally (and I think I can speak for most Asian women who prefer their own men), while I do find East Asian features to be the most sexually attractive to me, my attraction to them is more than just based on looks. It also had to do with the fact that I have much more chemistry with them than men of any other race. When I talk to non-Asian guys (in my experience), the conversation doesn’t flow so smoothly and we just end up talking about the weather. Then it’s a long, awkward pause after that. When I talk to most Asian guys, sometimes we can go on for hours.

    Which is why at the end of the day, it’s mind-boggling as to why someone would feel more connected to other races (especially a specific race) over their own–someone who was raised in the same environment, same culture, same upbringing. You would think familiarity is comforting. But not to white chasers, apparently.

    To prevent more Anna Lus in the future, I do believe upbringing is extremely important. I do think my parents did a good job and will probably do the same for my children; more exposure to Asian media, more communication to form stronger ties with them, more encouragement to maintain our ancestral language and I will most definitely move to areas like California or Hawaii where there are large Asian populations. I will probably also have my husband be included in our kids’ lives as much as possible. Like my father was for me, I do believe having a positive Asian male figure in their lives will lessen the chance that they will become Anna Lus or Uncle Chans.

    Feel free to give more suggestions or thoughts on the matter!


  • Empress of War

    @bugoutfever I’m not against calling white-worshippers Anna Lus, in fact, I’m actually supportive of it, especially since it carries a negative connotation/stigma. The way I see it is that sure, not everyone will understand the term yet but they will if the term is popularized enough. It’s like the word “ho.” Sure everyone understands the word “prostitute”, but when you’re insulting someone, saying, “Oh, you’re such a prostitute” doesn’t sound as derogatory as if you called them a ho. Like the word ho and every other slang word, if it’s stigmatized enough and popularized enough, it’ll make it to urban dictionary and eventually everyone will know what it means.


  • Level 3 - Captain

    Another example, in the Asian woman gets groped by self-entitled, fat, balding white guy in Southern California thread.

    “Any Asian woman who dates white guys is abetting and encouraging this kind of behavior further.”

    “And the non-white worshiping AW suffer for it.”

    Just call them normal, unbrainwashed, mentally sound, w/e. These descriptors are more useful than N.W.W.


  • Empress of War

    @suiko_no_shin Wow that’s really sad :( Don’t beat yourself up too much though…you were probably having your own personal problems that you needed to deal with first before you could help her with hers.

    My coworker had a sister-in-law that was similar to your friend. Except she never managed to get into any long-term relationships with an Asian guy, even though she badly wanted to. After a while, she gave up on Asian guys (none of the ones she knew were interested in her) and just went after white guys. I think she was doing it out of spite tbh.


  • Level 3 - Captain

    @secondstrike I don’t think there needs to be new terms. The existing terms used to explain the meaning of “anna lu/uncle chan” work just fine, ie. sellout/whitewash. What I am suggesting is introducing and focusing more on the mentally unsound aspect. Psychological attacks do much more damage.

    Compare the reaction to an Asian girl trash talking Asian men (supposedly a common occurrence for Asian America, for some reason)

    “typical anna lu bi#@%, this is why Asian girls are blah blah” (we’ve all heard the same unsophisticated rant before that I don’t need to write it all over again)

    "This is mentally unsound. To attack your own culture/people to someone outside that group, is classic self loather seeking acceptance behaviour. She also demonstrates a severe lack of knowledge for X culture/people. To attack something that you are not really apart of in the first place, reeks of insecurity. To be honest, this person should spend less time trash talking online and go see a therapist.

    Plus, at its root, these sorts of beliefs and actions should be categorized as a mental illness. Psychology is what is used to study and analyze such things. This is the case whether we are talking about the impact of media brainwashing or entertainment portrayals or traumatic personal event.

    edit: To expand a little further on what the second response is actually doing. The first response is a personal attack in the form of name calling coupled with some angry generalizing rant. The second response is also a personal attack, but in a way that brings into question the mental stability of the target. It isn’t just attacking the specifics of the target’s actions, it categorizes anything like it as something wrong with the mind. I believe widespread perception that these people are mentally ill (and I believe they are) would go a long ways towards stigmatizing it.


  • Level 1 - Sergeant

    @natalie_ng Yep. I think her failed relationships with Asian guys pushed her to the point where she was being very promiscuous especially with white guys. At one point she took a free trip to Vegas along w/ another Asian friend of hers and two white guys. This was after a breakup with her long time Asian boyfriend. I sorta feel sad because she did want to see me after that breakup and invited me to see her but I was not at a good point in my life and I didn’t want to burden her. I think if I had my stuff together, she would’ve been my wife to this day. When we were younger, we always hung out (and she came to see me specifically) and always got along very well.


  • Empress of War

    @suiko_no_shin Wait–she stayed in the enclave but still ended up with a white guy??? o.O

    @secondstrike LOL that’s half of the reason. The other half is that he simply has very nice facial features. Wow, I keep forgetting he’s in his forties…he does a great job maintaining his looks!


  • administrators

    @navaThrow That stuff is called orientalism (see Edward Said).There are many factors for the pairings though: hypergamy, socioeconomic, media, history of famine vs developed (lots of wars due to Western Imperialism), self hate, etc. I can’t do it justice in this post.


  • Level 0 - Private

    @secondstrike Yeah dude I completely agree. Western culture has a history of retarded pseudo-science that tries to belittle Eastern Culture+Asian Accomplishments+ Asian people in general.

    And the effects are significant and noticeable.

    Black People And Asian Men Have A Much Harder Time Dating On OKCupid

    Notice that women of all races heavily prefer white men in a much stronger influence than men preferring white women. And this happens across multiple years + hundreds of thousands of users. (In a more natural + non-experimental setting).


  • administrators

    @navaThrow Please see this https://asiansoul.org/topic/125/debunked-myths-gender-war-gender-gap-i-hate-af-i-hate-am-i-love-wm-i-love-wf

    lol @ whites and their “studies”. You know, they used to “know” that Asians were stupid, frail, barbaric, untrustworthy, and wanting to yellow peril the Western civilization into annihilation. There’s much more info on this matter in the coming months.


  • Level 0 - Private

    @secondstrike I personally don’t even think White girls are even close to the ideal and I’m sure most Asian men would agree with me. (Also there have been studies on this that provide evidence for the fact that women are much ‘Preferenced’ towards whites than men. [eg. men are much more satisfied with minority partners]).

    However, to best communicate one’s message it is important to have your audience in mind. These self-hating Asian girls clearly put white men (and white women) on a pedestal. If they make fun of my family for not fitting into their lame-ass white ideals, then you can be sure I will point out that they don’t measure up either/


  • administrators

    @natalie_ng could this be why?
    lrJJmk8.jpg

    This guy is like 46 or something. Amazing.

    @bugoutfever Interesting. The terms just took on a life of their own. Want to take a stab at some new terms?

    @navaThrow I agree with dealing with self hatred. Not sure if setting wf as the idea is the way to do it though.


  • Level 0 - Private

    Asian men need to start respecting themselves by removing toxic girls from their lives and date more non-asian women.

    I see far too many AsianAmerican girls trash Asian guys for no good reason. The anti-asian hate is so one-sided (eg. AF making fun of Asian men for being “shy”, “nerdy”, “boring”, and of course “patriarchical+misogynist”) while Asian men just take it and end up dating Asian women regardless.

    Asian women are human beings and humans respond to incentives. If the Asian community starts “dealing with” (eg. excommunicating) + admonishing Asian women that are filled with racist ideals and self-hatred, then ignorant AF will start to realize that it IS a big deal to hate on their asian brothers and fathers.

    For example, last time an Anna Lu and her friends tried to make fun of my little brother for being short I pointed out that they were grossly skinny and had no butt or boobs like their white girlfriends. They shut-up and stopped bullying my brother shortly after.

    AM need to shock AF into realizing just how harmful it is to have your own community betray and hate on you.


  • Level 3 - Captain

    I forgot to mention that I hate these terms (anna lu/uncle chan) and they have no resonance whatsoever to me. First of all, they are Chinese names and I’ve documented the subject of interracial relationships and Chinese are not remotely the worst offenders.

    https://np.reddit.com/r/CIWO/comments/3pz2qy/chinese_interracial_mainland/

    https://np.reddit.com/r/CIWO/comments/3vg3rm/chinese_interracial_overseas/

    Second of all they are nonsensical. For a term to be useful it needs to be descriptive. If people have to ask what the term means, it isn’t very good for propaganda purposes. When asked, the term is always described as sell outs/white washed/traitors, etc. THEN the person asking gets it. Only proving that there are better descriptive terms in the first place.

    Third, the terms are inherently weak. Even as a propaganda term it doesn’t achieve anything. It’s just a lazy reference. Pushing the idea that such people/behaviour is abnormal (and I have been actively doing this one) or mentally unsound for example, has for more serious impact.

    For example, a title that said “Preventing mental damage in Asian communities” or “Promoting sound mental health among Asians” is more professional and yet at the same time does far more damage to the target with its insinuations.


  • Level 1 - Sergeant

    @secondstrike
    I wouldn’t say I had a good experience lol! Among Asians, it was great, but poor white people were really bad (most physical altercations were with them) and Hispanics talked a lot of trash. My teachers (all white) always preferred their white students. I tried out for the part of Caesar and acted it better than the white kid but I didn’t get it. I tried out for every part and the one I did get was Cassius, the villain. Honestly, I would have preferred an enclave from ages 14-18. It was Jr.High and HS that was the worst (but also the most important, it’s this period that sets someone up for adult life). The skills I missed out on really set me back. Meanwhile, I look at some of my more successful friends and it was a positive experience that set them up.

    @natalie_ng
    Unfortunately I lost contact with the kids I used to hang out with. I got into contact with a few who did stay in the enclave and they turned out really well. One dated Asian guys well until her mid twenties (she’s now with a white guy but it was a long time coming though). The other is married to an Asian girl and has kids of his own.


  • Empress of War

    @suiko_no_shin I used to watch a lot of Chinese TV/movies too. Especially the ones from Hong Kong and a few from Taiwan. I also watched a lot of Japanese movies/TV shows as a preteen and later in life (17 years old and up), I started watching a lot of Korean stuff. I’ll admit–most of the time I watch them because I had crushes on various male actors (lol) but I was genuinely into the story lines too sometimes.

    That sucks that you had to move out of the enclave though…I had a Chinese female friend who went through similar experiences as you. She was big into Asian media (idolized Asian male singers/actors like me), Asian (Hong Kong especially) fashion/hairstyles and mostly hung out with us. But at the age of 13 or so, she and her parents moved to an all-white area because they thought it was more “upper class” and I remembered how much she hated it. But like you, her attraction standards also remained the same. She also continued staying in touch with us (her Asian friends) and exclusively only dated Asian guys.

    @secondstrike I loved the Wong Fei Hung movies! I think my dad did once tell me they were based on a real person. My favorite was the one with Donnie Yen, for uh, reasons…lol.


  • administrators

    @suiko_no_shin Nice. Glad you had a good experience growing up. Dubbed Wuxia films are some of my favorite. They’re so corny yet awesome because of the fighting like Wong Fei Hung.

    For those who don’t know, Wong Fei Hung is a Chinese doctor / martial arts master who beats the crap of out bad people while helping the poor. I think it’s based (very loosely) on a real person (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wong_Fei-hung). That combination is too funny.


  • Level 1 - Sergeant

    Grew up in an enclave and watched a lot of Asian media. My parents acquired media from their home country which also included Chinese TV/movies (dubbed over though). I LOVED when I got to watch these. When my family moved out of the enclave, the media dried up. The racial makeup changed (lots of whites, black and hispanic). Became a bigger gamer because of isolation. Only friends were gamers. I credit gaming w/ staying connected to Asia. I was into all the Japanese stuff before it got popular. After HS, when I was able to afford my own internet, I got back into Chinese movies (ff to now, I’m into drama too and learning the language similar to when I was learning Japanese to translate/play JRPG’s).

    Up to 14yrs old, I never had any self-esteem problems. I wasn’t a nerd (naturally did well but wasn’t a bookworm). Was popular with the girls. Media representation can only go so far. It helps a lot because you see people that look like you and you get an idea towards what you’re attracted to. More important than that was actually living around other Asians. I didn’t need a lot of media and wasn’t into solo activities b/c I had my own social network. Nothing can replace that experience. Living in the enclave, I was developing w/o restraint and moving out of it, my growth was repressed but luckily my attraction standards remained the same.


  • administrators

    @natalie_ng

    still don’t throw Asian women under the bus like many rich and famous Asian women do with Asian men.

    There is no such narrative programming them and there is no incentive either. The experiences of Asians is gendered so the behaviors/reactions are very different.

    afwm vs amwf dynamic

    The main difference goes to why they enter the relationships in the first place. afwm is highly unequal with Af often settling for racist left overs who actually dislike gender equality + social approval for their pairing (getting less now because people are beginning to clue in). Amwf face massive prejudice from society so for them to overcome it means they probably have something stronger than just some fetish. All this translates into different parenting quality.

    “I don’t understand why they don’t go for East European/Latina women MORE than Asian women”

    I would need stats before any conclusion can be drawn. I’ve been told that Russian women are going after Chinese guys because of a gender imbalance (Russia has more F and China more M) and rising living standards.


  • Empress of War

    @secondstrike said in Preventing the next generations of Anna Lus:

    I think it’s the lack of opportunity. Af can distance themselves from Asians because they have somewhere else to go, but Am? Who will accept them? Even many Af won’t accept them.

    Sure but there are still many alpha, famous, and successful Asian men who attract women of various races but still don’t throw Asian women under the bus like many rich and famous Asian women do with Asian men. Bruce Lee’s a good example since he was married to a white woman but was still attracted to Asian women (since he also had affairs with Chinese women in Hong Kong).

    Bruce Lee’s a celebrity but there are also normal Asian men who are married/dating non-Asian women but don’t pull the “I’m not into Asian girls because they remind me of my sister” crap.

    I agree. In general, amwf produces less crazies because they are more likely (not always) going against the grain of self-hate than afwm. Ya, the quote was meant to serve up an example of self hate.

    I think this also ties in with the fact that Asian men who are married to non-Asians aren’t because they hate Asian women or want to distance themselves from them. And I’ve never asked an AM married to a WF before but I’m guessing the AM fathers are probably like my own father and was upfront with his kids about racism from the get-go, unlike AF mothers married to WM who want to pass their kids off as white. Just my guess though, Idk much about this.

    I think Asian enclave is one factor but the second is the types of Asians living there. I live in an enclave and I see nerds everywhere, just a sea of dweebs at highschools and malls. I also find that it’s disctincly the E Asians who are the biggest dweebs of all. Philippinos were not as socially awkward and nerdy like the E Asians. I find that the less FOB they are the less nerdier (on average). Tiger parenting and also the academic pressure cooker especially in E Asia monopolizes their time/energy.

    Huh. That is odd. I could be biased too as well, I suppose. I may be quicker to notice attractive Asian guys over guys of other races and nerdier Asian guys, lol, so that might be another factor. Maybe since you’re a guy, you’ll have a much more unbiased view of the Asian enclaves than me, lol.

    THIS. So much this. Your experience is relatively rare, but exceptionally important to raising well-adjusted Asians.

    I think the reason my dad is like that is because he got into a lot of fights growing up and the reason why he got into a lot of fights was because his own parents were extremely chill and let him do his own thing. I’m serious–his sisters failed so many classes in school but the parents didn’t even bat an eye.

    I think they do already, don’t they? Mail order brides. I don’t know for sure but I suspect the other reason is that wm can’t waltz into most spaces and be treated super well like many moronic Asian nations.

    Oops, I meant to add “more” in that sentence, as in “I don’t understand why they don’t go for East European/Latina women MORE than Asian women”. But yeah, perhaps you’re right that they can’t just waltz into those places like they can Asian countries–especially Southeast Asian countries! Thailand’s sexpat capital is not helping us at all…


  • administrators

    @natalie_ng

    Black women also have it very bad, but like Asian men, they still take pride in themselves and their people.

    They have a much deeper understanding owing to their parents, counter frames, etc. Meanwhile, many Asian parents are raising a bunch of sheep to the slaughter by NOT arming them with awareness and counter frames.

    Yeah, again, I just can’t help but wonder why you see much more women falling for the racial stereotypes than you see the men.
    Asian boys, growing up, were probably forced to watch guys like William Hung represent himself in western media, but they never turn their back on their own or try to distance themselves from other Asians.

    I think it’s the lack of opportunity. Af can distance themselves from Asians because they have somewhere else to go, but Am? Who will accept them? Even many Af won’t accept them.

    I have to wonder if biologically speaking, women are more prone to these types of breakdowns. In other words, when racists attack men, they fight back. When racists attack women, they seem to give up and just go with it (this doesn’t apply to black women though, for some reason).

    I think it’s got more to do with females being more status driven/socially concerned than men. Females attack psychologically. They have a strong need to belong - more so than men.

    When you look at the forefront of AA activism, it’s almost always, always Asian men.

    I don’t know enough about this, but I think it goes back to defensive othering. They still live partially with rose colored glasses by mistaking relationships with fetishists = white acceptance. Am have less illusions about that. The narratives are also very different. Af are fed that wm = liberation from the made up “evil Am patriarchy” (cooked up by wm and their Af accomplices). Hopefully someone else can chime in here.

    I guess the point I’m trying to make is that Asian men usually are much less likely to fall into self-hatred mode than the women.

    and

    Okay, I think that’s very rare and extremely, extremely odd. Most of the AMWF hapas I know (and I would say I know quite a few) seem to take a lot of pride in being Asian.

    I agree. In general, amwf produces less crazies because they are more likely (not always) going against the grain of self-hate than afwm. Ya, the quote was meant to serve up an example of self hate.

    Living in an Asian enclave, I don’t see AM to have more nerds than WMs, but since many Asian guys online who live in non-Asian areas have told me that AMs where they live are mostly “nerdy”, I’ll take their word for it. I do think that has largely to do with tiger parenting though.

    I think Asian enclave is one factor but the second is the types of Asians living there. I live in an enclave and I see nerds everywhere, just a sea of dweebs at highschools and malls. I also find that it’s disctincly the E Asians who are the biggest dweebs of all. Philippinos were not as socially awkward and nerdy like the E Asians. I find that the less FOB they are the less nerdier (on average). Tiger parenting and also the academic pressure cooker especially in E Asia monopolizes their time/energy.

    My dad also wasn’t the type of man who told us to stay still and be pushovers. He used to say, “If they hit you, you hit back…harder.”

    THIS. So much this. Your experience is relatively rare, but exceptionally important to raising well-adjusted Asians.

    I don’t understand why they don’t do since Eastern European/Latina women look MUCH more similar to your standard western white woman and culturally, they are also much more similar.

    I think they do already, don’t they? Mail order brides. I don’t know for sure but I suspect the other reason is that wm can’t waltz into most spaces and be treated super well like many moronic Asian nations.

    I’m hoping that at least the white-worshipping will end with ours

    Yup. It’s all we can do now.


  • Empress of War

    @bugoutfever said in Preventing the next generations of Anna Lus:

    I had a very similar upbringing, but in Canada. Needless to say much of the Asian American experience was very strange and abnormal to me. Course, it might have to do with an Asian enclave environment, but I think there are still key differences regarding the two countries.

    I’m Asian American and even I find it strange/abnormal, lol. Like you though, I also lived in an Asian enclave so that’s probably why I don’t understand what goes on in the heads of Anna Lus.

    I think the reason there are such explanations, is because it takes something abnormal to explain abnormal behaviour. In all of schooling, I only knew of one girl who mostly hung out with non Asians exclusively. I don’t know anything about her though, because the Asian groups in my school never talked to her or hung out with her. I can’t help but wonder that she is the type to slander Asians online, she is the type that others attack online

    I wouldn’t be surprised if she did. But yes, I agree that it takes something abnormal to explain abnormal behavior so maybe that’s why many of us can never fully comprehend white-worshipping individuals (to me, it’s similar to something like pedophilia or beastiality–it’s so strange and gross that I can never see the point of it). We may have theories and ideas, but in the end, we’re mostly doing our best to guess what causes this type of behavior so that we can tackle it for our future children’s sake.

    It’s not just about culture, it is about pride and loyalty. Knowing how to use chopsticks doesn’t mean anything if you have no pride or loyalty.

    100% agree. Pride/loyalty are characteristics that far too many Asian-Americans (and even a few Asians in Asia) seem to lack.


  • Empress of War

    @secondstrike said in Preventing the next generations of Anna Lus:

    If you are unaware, you’ll simply assume you’re inferior. That’s how you learn to accept your “inferiority” and white “superiority”. You normalize this and you become a slave.

    So seems like racists generally rely on the victims’ ignorance about their own group to keep them believing in white superiority.

    individual inculcation of the racist stereotypes, values, images, and ideologies perpetuated by the White dominant society about one’s racial group, leading to feelings of self doubt, disgust, and disrespect for one’s race and or oneself.

    This makes a lot of sense but I do have to wonder why is it that it’s mostly women who fall into “feelings of self doubt, disgust, and disrespect” for themselves? It seems that Asian men have it much worse, especially when they live in all-white areas but you rarely see Asian men putting down their own as often as the women do. Black women also have it very bad, but like Asian men, they still take pride in themselves and their people.

    Everyone, especially non-whites are mind-controlled by pervasive Western media that normalizes racist stereotypes that instill self hate for yourself, your body, your race, and even your own men. Simultaneously, it instills white worship to at great personal and racial expense.

    Yeah, again, I just can’t help but wonder why you see much more women falling for the racial stereotypes than you see the men. Asian boys, growing up, were probably forced to watch guys like William Hung represent himself in western media, but they never turn their back on their own or try to distance themselves from other Asians.

    most of my respondents struggled through their childhood and teenage years with an strong sense of racial ethnic cultural difference, including being “embarrassed” or “self conscious” about their culture, which produced powerful desires to “whiten.”

    That is extremely, extremely sad.

    such desires for “white identification” to avoid racism seemed to have been typically accompanied by attraction to Caucasian boys from a young age.

    Okay, I suppose I can sort of see how that works. By distancing themselves from all Asians in general (probably from both men and women), they probably want to be seen as “different” from other Asian-Americans so that they can be more “accepted” by the white kids. I actually used to know an Asian female classmate who avoided hanging out with all Asians (boys and girls) and I often wondered why. The only difference was that she mainly hung out with blacks. In any case, now I know why.

    This is called “defensive othering”, where the oppressed distance themselves from the blacklisted group eg Am but especially stereotypical nerdy Am. Imagine a guy at a party. Would he want to be seen with a 400kg woman? No, because it makes him look very bad. The association is social suicide. Many (not all) Am, through a combo of a decades-long smear campaign + looking/behaving like girly men = the male equivalent of a 400kg woman. No one wants to be seen with them because it’s embarassing and hurts their social status.

    Yeah, okay, that makes sense.

    White males smeared Am with lies and stereotypes and then Af react by distancing themselves so they don’t look bad. The root of this problem is racist white mlaes.

    Example 1

    an Asian American woman told me, “I would especially treat the Asian American boys badly when I was in school because I wanted nothing to do with them, I didn’t want to be associated with them. I was ashamed of [Asianness].”

    She wanted to avoid things that made her look bad, and to her it was Asian American boys. I think that that happens a lot. And it’s not a coincidence that that is precisely what historically and in the present a lot of the white men prefer.

    So white men like it when AA women put down/avoid AA men. That would explain why the likes of esther ku has so much yellow fever pigs cheering her on.

    I was curious about the demographics of her followers so I did go through those who liked her most racist tweets as well as her follower list. It was mostly white people from trailer trash states, no surprise there. But the people who liked her racist tweets were the most telling; they were all mostly hideous looking white guys that I don’t think any sane woman would touch with a 10-ft pole.

    His father was a successful doctor who had emigrated from China, and his mother was white. Whenever a peer would ask him about his racial makeup, he would fervently say, “I’m white.” If questioned again, because physically he looked multiracial, he would get very angry and shout that he was “not Chinese” but rather white.

    I met another Asian American man who had Chinese parents and called himself “The Caucasian Asian.” Every time I saw him hanging outside of the dorm, he was engaged in these male performances of hypermasculinity. He was loud, walking with an exaggerated swagger, and constantly yelling out that he was the “Caucasian Asian.”

    in both cases, I saw these two men overtly and publicly reject their Asianness.

    Okay, I think that’s very rare and extremely, extremely odd. Most of the AMWF hapas I know (and I would say I know quite a few) seem to take a lot of pride in being Asian. I used to know one AMWF male hapa who was the complete opposite of that hapa that’s mentioned in the article. His father was also Chinese, his mother was white. But he always insisted that he was full Chinese and ignored all questions about his mother. It took a lot of effort from us (his friends) to get him to admit his mom was white, lol. He can speak Chinese fairly well and while he was very popular with people of all races (he was athletic and had a sense of humor), his inner circle consisted of all Asian guys.

    I used to have a middle school teacher who was also an AMWF hapa and she frequently talked about injustices towards Asian Americans, had us write reports denouncing racism towards AAs, and organized a field trip to Angel Island where the first Asian immigrants were treated badly.

    Another one of my AMWF female classmates later only dated Asian guys and ended up marrying one.

    Even the AMWF hapas at r/hapas seemed to be more comfortable with their identities than the WMAF hapas that all seem a little (or a lot) messed up.

    I guess the point I’m trying to make is that Asian men usually are much less likely to fall into self-hatred mode than the women. Yes, there probably are a few Asian men out there who are the male equivalents of Anna Lus, but they’re much rarer, so when they get with a woman (Asian or non-Asian), their kids typically don’t have as many identity crisis as WMAF or any XMAF kids.

    Asian Americans, especially girls and women, are disturbingly overrepresented with rates of depression and suicide. As recently as spring of 2011, The National Alliance on Mental lllness released a report that Asian American girls have the highest rates of depressive symptoms of any racial/ethnic or gender group.

    Yes, I have to wonder about that. As I’ve said before, Asian men, despite being targeted much more by racists, don’t have as much of a mental/emotional breakdown as the women and shun their own group. I have to wonder if biologically speaking, women are more prone to these types of breakdowns. In other words, when racists attack men, they fight back. When racists attack women, they seem to give up and just go with it (this doesn’t apply to black women though, for some reason).

    When you look at the forefront of AA activism, it’s almost always, always Asian men. And I don’t just mean from bigger sources like books, administrators of AA activism websites, videos, etc…I also mean from smaller platforms like Facebook or Twitter. I always see my AA guy friends posting things relating to the AA community (especially in regards to racism) on facebook but NOTHING related to AAs from my AA girl friends. If the girls do talk about racism, it’s always about blacklivesmatter or support for Latino immigration, but NEVER about their own group. When it comes to racism in regards to our community, it’s dead silence on their part (while the guys are much louder). I just have to wonder why???

    This is why some Af loudly and publicly claim they don’t date Am. It makes no sense to say this unless they’re trying to prove something eg distance themselves from them.

    1. lots of Am fit stereotypes

    This one is obvious with the huge number of Am nerds

    Living in an Asian enclave, I don’t see AM to have more nerds than WMs, but since many Asian guys online who live in non-Asian areas have told me that AMs where they live are mostly “nerdy”, I’ll take their word for it. I do think that has largely to do with tiger parenting though.

    1. Ineffective parenting feeding sheep to wolves

    Asian parents on average completely fail their children by NOT arming them with the knowledge and tools required to fight against white racism. Instead, many of these parents delude them with nonsense such as “white people are good and honorable”, “The West is a post-racial utopia”, “white men treat women better”, etc. Not only do many parents not expose the truth but they uphold self-harming lies. On top of this, they also teach their kid to tolerate…anything and everything. “Don’t make trouble”, “ be a good little boy”, etc. Now, here’s the result. Many people think their daughter is a yellow cab and their son a punching bag.

    I can definitely see how this will affect the kids’ mentality towards their own group. I think I was lucky in that my parents were into open/honest communication with me and my brother, sat us down and told us about the discrimination they had to endure when they first came to the U.S. My dad was very real with us and sometimes talked about what negative treatments we might have to endure from whites (whether from friends, coworkers, employers, even dating) in our lifetime. My dad also wasn’t the type of man who told us to stay still and be pushovers. He used to say, “If they hit you, you hit back…harder.”

    So yes, I can see how different ways of parenting can yield different mentalities in the children. Perhaps the way my father raised me is one of the main reasons why I can never quite understand or relate to the Anna Lus.

    My father is the most influential figure in my life. I would need to write a novel if I had to explain why and how but in short, he took the most care of me and he’s done admirable things in the past to won my (and a lot of people’s) respect.

    Yup. The common thread is that you saw non-stereotypical Am in your life whether it was family, media, friends, etc.

    Yes, having good-looking and charismatic Asian male relatives and friends around me a lot (and watching a lot of Asian media) made me shocked to learn by others online that a lot of Asian men in all-white areas are “nerdy”. Even 'til now, I still have a hard time believing people’s claims of so many Asian men acting as stereotypes in white trailer trash states.

    I remembered that 40% of AA women are with white men. With a number that high, at least SOME of those women have good-looking male relatives.

    Sure, but the avg person of all races are meh. The 60% with Am probably grew up surrounded by more top tier Am.

    That’s true, I didn’t think about that.

    “Asian girls who prefer Asian guys can still speak their family’s language. White-washed girls who chase white guys can only speak English.”

    Hard to say, but we can surmise that those who speak their language are less likely to hate on their culture or at least, hate it less. Those who only speak English made no effort to keep their Asian identity. Some even actively fought against it.

    Yes, I have heard from some AA girls on youtube who said their parents insisted that they speak their ancestral language but they always made sure to respond in English. Imo, that sounds like fighting against their identity.

    To prevent more Anna Lus in the future, I do believe upbringing is extremely important.

    That’s definitely a big part of it. The other part is making sure they know lots of wm are NOT egalitarian, but are preying on their naivety and self hate. Many wm that specifically go for Af are some of the worst specimens - the left overs who couldn’t get wf and probably would have died alone if not for this afwm cheat code.

    Yep, I do believe our future daughters need to be made aware of this. Their naivety can definitely lead to white women rejects to take advantage of them.

    Globally circulating imaginaries that cast Asian, Latin American, Caribbean and East European women as more subservient than their allegedly liberated white counterparts in the USA and Western Europe drives Western men’s demand for non-Western women.

    Ah, if only they would just stick to East European/Latin American women…something I don’t understand why they don’t do since Eastern European/Latina women look MUCH more similar to your standard western white woman and culturally, they are also much more similar.

    racialized images can cause Asian American women to believe they will find greater gender equality with white men and can cause white men to believe they will find greater subservience with Asian women. This dynamic promotes Asian American women’s availability to white men and makes them particularly vulnerable to mistreatment.

    Again, this is where parents need to speak up. Asian parents have to stop seeing whites in rose-colored glasses in order to protect their children. But in order to do that, Asian parents must stop being so white-worshipping themselves. While I think it’s far too late to help out the older generation, I’m hoping that at least the white-worshipping will end with ours, so that our kids don’t grow up to hate themselves or seek white men/women to validate themselves.


  • administrators

    @natalie_ng

    Warning: This is very long.

    I did a lot of research on this. I’ll try to summarize the key points with some academic quotes from Af and Wf. I leave out Am sources (except Frank Chin) to avoid accusations (not from you) of bias.

    The following applies to Af with lukemia.

    1. brainwashing with self hate and white worship
    2. lots of Am fit stereotypes
    3. Cutting themselves off from anything Asian - especially media.
    4. Ineffective parenting feeding sheep to wolves

    In more detail…

    1. brainwashing with self hate and white worship AKA internalized oppression / racism

    Vectors of self hate include mocking your accent, lies about your supposedly inferior bodies, the supposedly small penis and misogyny and shorter height of your men, nerdy intelligence, lack of creativity, etc Most of these stereotypes are lies AND those that are not are based on biased sampling.

    If you are unaware, you’ll simply assume you’re inferior. That’s how you learn to accept your “inferiority” and white “superiority”. You normalize this and you become a slave.

    ● The dominant group controls the construction of reality through the production of ideologies or “knowledge” (Foucault 1977 [1975]) that circulate throughout society where they inform social norms, organizational practices, bureaucratic procedures, and commonsense knowledge. In this way the interests of the oppressors are presented as reflecting everyone’s best interests, thereby getting oppressed groups to accept the dominant group’s interests as their own

    the subjugated inculcate, seemingly by cultural osmosis, negative stereotypes and ideologies disseminated as taken for granted knowledge.

    individual inculcation of the racist stereotypes, values, images, and ideologies perpetuated by the White dominant society about one’s racial group, leading to feelings of self doubt, disgust, and disrespect for one’s race and or oneself.

    ● All systems of oppression not thoroughly coerced through brute force and overt repression involve the dominant group’s ability to win consent of the oppressed. ● When the oppressed come to accept these identities as “real,” they are in effect internalizing their subjugated status

    ● One need not experience discrete, identifiable instances of overt discrimination to internalize racial oppression.

    ● White racism can infiltrate the world view of the racially oppressed without their conscious consent (Osajima 1993) in a subtle process some refer to as “indoctrination” and “mental colonialization” (hooks 2003). What is Internalized Racial Oppression and Why Don’t We Study it -

    Acknowledging Racism’s Hidden Injuries
    http://irows.ucr.edu/cd/courses/232/pyke/intracopp.pdf

    Everyone, especially non-whites are mind-controlled by pervasive Western media that normalizes racist stereotypes that instill self hate for yourself, your body, your race, and even your own men. Simultaneously, it instills white worship to at great personal and racial expense. It’s near impossible to understand this because it works on the subconscious level while claims of post-racial society curb any doubts you may have. Over time, the false white racist beliefs are normalized and seem to be “just the way it is”.

    Much of the information Asian Americans garner about their identities is from the media.

    Asian American Sexual Politics: The Construction of Race, Gender, and Sexuality: Rosalind S. Chou
    http://www.amazon.com/Asian-American-Sexual-Politics-Construction/dp/1442209240

    Enclaves are better than isolated areas because stereotypes get contradicted more often.

    most of my respondents struggled through their childhood and teenage years with an strong sense of racial ethnic cultural difference, including being “embarrassed” or “self conscious” about their culture, which produced powerful desires to “whiten.”

    development of powerful assimilative yearning, which seemed to be a common denominator among men and women of this study who eventually chose to marry interracially. Indeed, although every one of my respondents reported being a target of racist slurs and bullying when growing up—some endured these as a family unit—those who weathered these challenges most effectively were those who practiced as much distancing from the Asian “stereotypes” as possible. Relating that none of the second generation Chinese kids she knew of “wanted to be Chinese,”

    such desires for “white identification” to avoid racism seemed to have been typically accompanied by attraction to Caucasian boys from a young age.

    Children and the Shifting Engagement with Racial Ethnic Identity among Second Generation Interracially Married Asian Americans
    https://kuscholarworks.ku.edu/bitstream/handle/1808/14641/Chong_2013.pdf

    This is called “defensive othering”, where the oppressed distance themselves from the blacklisted group eg Am but especially stereotypical nerdy Am. Imagine a guy at a party. Would he want to be seen with a 400kg woman? No, because it makes him look very bad. The association is social suicide. Many (not all) Am, through a combo of a decades-long smear campaign + looking/behaving like girly men = the male equivalent of a 400kg woman. No one wants to be seen with them because it’s embarassing and hurts their social status.

    White males smeared Am with lies and stereotypes and then Af react by distancing themselves so they don’t look bad. The root of this problem is racist white mlaes.

    Example 1

    an Asian American woman told me, “I would especially treat the Asian American boys badly when I was in school because I wanted nothing to do with them, I didn’t want to be associated with them. I was ashamed of [Asianness].”

    She wanted to avoid things that made her look bad, and to her it was Asian American boys. I think that that happens a lot. And it’s not a coincidence that that is precisely what historically and in the present a lot of what white men prefer.

    Asian American Sexual Politics: The Construction of Race, Gender, and Sexuality: Rosalind S. Chou
    http://www.amazon.com/Asian-American-Sexual-Politics-Construction/dp/1442209240

    Example 2

    His father was a successful doctor who had emigrated from China, and his mother was white. Whenever a peer would ask him about his racial makeup, he would fervently say, “I’m white.” If questioned again, because physically he looked multiracial, he would get very angry and shout that he was “not Chinese” but rather white.

    I met another Asian American man who had Chinese parents and called himself “The Caucasian Asian.” Every time I saw him hanging outside of the dorm, he was engaged in these male performances of hypermasculinity. He was loud, walking with an exaggerated swagger, and constantly yelling out that he was the “Caucasian Asian.”

    in both cases, I saw these two men overtly and publicly reject their Asianness.

    Asian American Sexual Politics: The Construction of Race, Gender, and Sexuality: Rosalind S. Chou
    http://www.amazon.com/Asian-American-Sexual-Politics-Construction/dp/1442209240

    These mind control techniques inflict negative physical effects.

    It made an impact over time, when all you hear is the negative instead of the positive. I always felt like the outsider and I was teased for just being Asian. They’d pull their eyes down, and they always thought I was Chinese.

    All sixty respondents had memories of being teased and feeling like a racial "other”.

    Asian Americans, especially girls and women, are disturbingly overrepresented with rates of depression and suicide. As recently as spring of 2011, The National Alliance on Mental lllness released a report that Asian American girls have the highest rates of depressive symptoms of any racial/ethnic or gender group.

    Asian American Sexual Politics: The Construction of Race, Gender, and Sexuality: Rosalind S. Chou
    http://www.amazon.com/Asian-American-Sexual-Politics-Construction/dp/1442209240

    This is why some Af loudly and publicly claim they don’t date Am. It makes no sense to say this unless they’re trying to prove something eg distance themselves from them.

    1. lots of Am fit stereotypes

    This one is obvious with the huge number of Am nerds

    1. Cutting themselves off from anything Asian - especially media.

    Point 1 leads to this point

    In terms of the utter lack of cultural distinction in America, the destruction of an organic sense of identity, the complete psychological and cultural subjugation of a race of people, the people of Chinese and Japanese [East Asian mainly] ancestry stand out as white racism’s only success.

    FRANK CHIN BLOG: Racist Love:
    http://chintalks.blogspot.ca/2008/08/racist-love.html

    1. Ineffective parenting feeding sheep to wolves

    Asian parents on average completely fail their children by NOT arming them with the knowledge and tools required to fight against white racism. Instead, many of these parents delude them with nonsense such as “white people are good and honorable”, “The West is a post-racial utopia”, “white men treat women better”, etc. Not only do many parents not expose the truth but they uphold self-harming lies. On top of this, they also teach their kid to tolerate…anything and everything. “Don’t make trouble”, “ be a good little boy”, etc. Now, here’s the result. Many people think their daughter is a yellow cab and their son a punching bag.

    Many of my respondents were not given lessons on how to deal with racist incidents; very few parents discussed this subject.

    Many of my respondents lacked guidance from family, friends, or their community on how to cope with discrimination.

    Asian American Sexual Politics: The Construction of Race, Gender, and Sexuality: Rosalind S. Chou
    http://www.amazon.com/Asian-American-Sexual-Politics-Construction/dp/1442209240

    Regarding your experience:

    I grew up watching hundreds and hundreds of Asian movies/shows…So that might have something to do with it.

    Absolutely it does. This is huge. Media portrayals matter a lot.

    My father is the most influential figure in my life. I would need to write a novel if I had to explain why and how but in short, he took the most care of me and he’s done admirable things in the past to won my (and a lot of people’s) respect.

    Yup. The common thread is that you saw non-stereotypical Am in your life whether it was family, media, friends, etc.

    I would imagine most Asian fathers to care a lot for their daughters, yet many still seem to be fine with throwing Asian men, including their fathers, under the bus.

    Think how many Am look and act like stereotypes tho…

    many of my uncles/cousins are attractive and have hoards of women (even non-Asian women) interested in them…

    This is like an anomaly. I think being surrounded by good genes really helped.

    I remembered that 40% of AA women are with white men. With a number that high, at least SOME of those women have good-looking male relatives.

    Sure, but the avg person of all races are meh. The 60% with Am probably grew up surrounded by more top tier Am.

    “Asian girls who prefer Asian guys can still speak their family’s language. White-washed girls who chase white guys can only speak English.”

    Hard to say, but we can surmise that those who speak their language are less likely to hate on their culture or at least, hate it less. Those who only speak English made no effort to keep their Asian identity. Some even actively fought against it.

    To prevent more Anna Lus in the future, I do believe upbringing is extremely important.

    That’s definitely a big part of it. The other part is making sure they know lots of wm are NOT egalitarian, but are preying on their naivety and self hate. Many wm that specifically go for Af are some of the worst specimens - the left overs who couldn’t get wf and probably would have died alone if not for this afwm cheat code.

    Globally circulating imaginaries that cast Asian, Latin American, Caribbean and East European women as more subservient than their allegedly liberated white counterparts in the USA and Western Europe drives Western men’s demand for non-Western women.

    Fed up with the independence, career-orientation, materialism, assertiveness and egalitarian expectations associated with white Western women, Western men pursue traditional, subservient wives from abroad, or immigrant populations in their own country

    An Intersectional Approach to Resistance and Complicity - The Case of Racialised Desire among Asian American Women
    http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/07256860903477704

    racialized images can cause Asian American women to believe they will find greater gender equality with white men and can cause white men to believe they will find greater subservience with Asian women. This dynamic promotes Asian American women’s availability to white men and makes them particularly vulnerable to mistreatment.

    Asian American Women And Racialized Femininities ‘Doing’ Gender across Cultural Worlds
    http://www.irows.ucr.edu/cd/courses/232/pyke/femininities.pdf


  • Level 3 - Captain

    I had a very similar upbringing, but in Canada. Needless to say much of the Asian American experience was very strange and abnormal to me. Course, it might have to do with an Asian enclave environment, but I think there are still key differences regarding the two countries. Another topic for another time perhaps.

    it’s mind-boggling as to why someone would feel more connected to other races (especially a specific race) over their own–someone who was raised in the same environment, same culture, same upbringing. You would think familiarity is comforting. But not to white chasers, apparently.

    I think there are many different reasons for this. Some of the most popular ones seem to be

    1. Not actually being in any sort of Asian environment at all, but rather being the token Asian among mostly whites.

    2. Adoption. Self Explanatory.

    3. Broken homes/some sort of major family dysfunction

    There are more explanations of course, but the entertainment/media thing is a whole other large topic.

    I think the reason there are such explanations, is because it takes something abnormal to explain abnormal behaviour. In all of schooling, I only knew of one girl who mostly hung out with non Asians exclusively. I don’t know anything about her though, because the Asian groups in my school never talked to her or hung out with her. I can’t help but wonder that she is the type to slander Asians online, she is the type that others attack online, and yet she wasn’t even considered Asian by the actual Asians in my school. Yet somehow, online, she is getting labeled as Asian. Her behaviour is the one representing. It is very strange.

    Well, that is until others finally speak the truth.

    http://imgur.com/a/hZVPr

    See now that may be seen as negative, or an attack, I don’t see it that way. That is how Asians were growing up. That I can understand, not that abnormal lone wolf thing.

    Upbringing is definitely the key. Unfortunately not a lot of Asian parents tackle the issue of race relations. It’s not just about culture, it is about pride and loyalty. Knowing how to use chopsticks doesn’t mean anything if you have no pride or loyalty.


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